Curse

Targren · Apr 14, 2009, 06:46 PM // 18:46

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Not "recently". I got it from buying EotN from online store (which also gave me the BMP) a long while before they offered the fire imp. They don't sell "it", they sell the game in a new package where you get "it".

I separated "buying from the online store" from the "recent purchases" for a reason. By the latter, I meant the trilogy packs and later box games that include it. And you may not see it on your OLS since you have it, but they do INDEED sell it. Look under "Guild Wars 2008 Upgrade" for $4.99.

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Originally Posted by Daesu

As an ANet's customer, you dont have to buy EVERY single option in their store, you know.

Fatuous thing to say, really. We're all well aware of that.

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Maybe there will be some ANet customer who have lots of money, dont really care, and prefer to pay for that bit of convenience? What's it to you?

There's lots of things it is "to me."
1. I might like the upgrade at a price that doesn't make me feel like I'm being ripped off.
2. I might actually like GW and Anet and not want to see them fail as a company based on stupid business decisions.
3. I might feel entitled to my opinion, seeing as how I spent 300,000 years evolving the capacity for rational thought.

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If you dont like the price, you dont have to buy it. The extra storage is not like an unfair upgrade that totally unbalance the game.

And that dichotomy is the problem. Either I pay too much and get ripped off, or I do without the upgrade that I would actually really like, and Anet doesn't get my money. That's lose/lose for both them and me.

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If anything, the cheap extra account unbalances the game more than the storage upgrade, due to the zkeys.

And yet, they are encouraging just that.

Daesu · Apr 14, 2009, 07:01 PM // 19:01

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Originally Posted by Targren

There's lots of things it is "to me."
1. I might like the upgrade at a price that doesn't make me feel like I'm being ripped off.
2. I might actually like GW and Anet and not want to see them fail as a company based on stupid business decisions.
3. I might feel entitled to my opinion, seeing as how I spent 300,000 years evolving the capacity for rational thought.

And you the millionth customer that said what has already been said. ANet already knows that and I am sure they are aware of the pricing of old campaigns. If they still decided to price the slots that way then it is their call, not yours.

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And that dichotomy is the problem. Either I pay too much and get ripped off, or I do without the upgrade that I would actually really like, and Anet doesn't get my money. That's lose/lose for both them and me.

Maybe they feel that they can get more money if they price it higher and maybe there are enough customers who dont mind paying.

There still no valid reasoning to hate ANet for this. This thread is silly to the core. I can find dozens of items in their online store that are not worth the price. Big deal!

NeHoMaR · Apr 14, 2009, 07:01 PM // 19:01

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Originally Posted by Miss Puddles

I still don't get why people are complaining over something they don't have to do.

Maybe because people just want all that new storage for FREE!!!??? without paying and without even moving a finger, or you don't want that too? if not, I can charge you 10$ every time you read my posts, if you really want to pay for things that should be free.

Indeed, that's the way the storage should be from 2005.

Yawgmoth · Apr 14, 2009, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Hey look! Anet is releasing $40 worth of purchasable content in this update!

Now move back a couple years and see what the $40 releases were then - FULL CAMPAGINS - massive tons of content and +2 character slots included!

This year... you know what... 4 tiny tabs of xunlai... for the same price.

Still not getting where it's all going?

Rocky Raccoon · Apr 14, 2009, 07:09 PM // 19:09

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Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

Hey look! Anet is releasing $40 worth of purchasable content in this update!

Now move back a couple years and see what the $40 releases were then - FULL CAMPAGINS - massive tons of content and +2 character slots included!

This year... you know what... 4 tiny tabs of xunlai... for the same price.

Still not getting where it's all going?

It's apples to oranges, you don't need the storage to extend the storyline the way an expansion does.

Daesu · Apr 14, 2009, 07:13 PM // 19:13

If you check how much the older campaigns cost in their online store and compare them with outside prices. It will also be too pricey. How about their GOTY upgrade? Do you think they priced it right?

Should we start another boycott thread on that too?

NeHoMaR · Apr 14, 2009, 07:17 PM // 19:17

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Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

Hey look! Anet is releasing $40 worth of purchasable content in this update!

Now move back a couple years and see what the $40 releases were then - FULL CAMPAGINS - massive tons of content and +2 character slots included!

This year... you know what... 4 tiny tabs of xunlai... for the same price.

Still not getting where it's all going?

That's the point! They are slowly making us getting used to that, so they will charge 20$ for 1 inventory slot in GW2.

Sarcasm -> Maybe they just must make GW1 and GW2 pay to play, add a monthly fee, and forget about all that tricks.

Orange Milk · Apr 14, 2009, 07:22 PM // 19:22

I'm rather certain someone did a cost based gains analysis by working up several simulations of projected sales and from those simulations they decided that at $10 ea pane they would sell X amount of ugrades to = Z profit.

I REALLY like the idea of $5 a pane, and I would buy all 4 at that price, HOWEVER perhaps the simulations did not show enough difference in higher sales from the lower price which means less profit, and YES they need profit they don't do this just for fun ya know. Heres an example so it is easy to understand that if they cut the price in half they would need to double their sale projections at the $5 to meet their goal based off of the $10 price/projection.

100 panes sold at $10 = $1000

100 panes sold at $5 = $500

200 panes sold at $5 = $1000

I'm sure they know that the $10 price irks people, they had to know it would Irk people going in, but they still expect to hit a sales $ number at that price even at the risk of pissing off a few folks. Like the small chart shows, at 1/2 the cost they would need double the sales, perhaps their numbers did not show the double sales possiblity based of off the current ACTIVE player base.

It is a risk reward manuver, of sorts, for ANet wich I hope pans out, but with someone elses money not mine.

Targren · Apr 14, 2009, 07:23 PM // 19:23

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Originally Posted by Daesu

And you the millionth customer that said what has already been said. ANet already knows that and I am sure they are aware of the pricing of old campaigns. If they still decided to price the slots that way then it is their call, not yours.

Again with the stating-the-obvious thing. And I'll repeat, we're completely entitled to the opinion that they are MAKING THE WRONG ONE.

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Maybe they feel that they can get more money if they price it higher and maybe there are enough customers who dont mind paying.

It's not a question of whether there are enough customers who don't mind paying. It's a question of whether there are more who would buy at a lower price point.

Look at the poll. The numbers are VERY close between "it's fair" and "the price needs to be lower." Consider that the Guru are generally the more hardcore/serious/obsessed players (discounting the trolls who seem to just post thrice daily for the sole purpose of telling us they don't play anymore, GW is dying, etc...). It would not be hard to imagine that the percentages would be even more skewed against the current price point among the normal player base.

If the number of slots sold to players at $10 is JUST ONE less than 50% of the number that would be sold at $5, then they are making less money than they could.

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There still no valid reasoning to hate ANet for this.

Who said anything about hate? You need to get your weltanschauung out of American politics. You can say someone is making a bad decision without hating them and hoping they die in a fire.

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This thread is silly to the core. I can find dozens of items in their online store that are not worth the price. Big deal!

As can I. But this one specifically addresses what has been cited as a flaw in the game almost since its release.

Fril Estelin · Apr 14, 2009, 07:24 PM // 19:24

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Originally Posted by NeHoMaR

That's the point! They are slowly making us getting used to that, so they will charge 20$ for 1 inventory slot in GW2.

Utterly ridiculous. IF (big "if" here, I don't believe it can happen, Anet is smarter than that) it happens, there'll be a massive exodus from GW1, including me. Thus ("proof by contradiction" in logic) they won't do it.

They're not slowly making anything at all. We have no idea what reasons the marketing department had to charge $10. Maybe (read my other posts for more ideas) they have the complete financial data of online store purchase, plus info about current MMO products, that "justify" such a pricetag.

Daesu · Apr 14, 2009, 07:24 PM // 19:24

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Originally Posted by NeHoMaR

That's the point! They are slowly making us getting used to that, so they will charge 20$ for 1 inventory slot in GW2.

I agree many of their newer pricings are more expensive now that ANet is a more established and successful company. Call it inflation or whatever you like.

But fighting over the pricing for storage slots is as stupid as fighting over their pricing for their GOTY upgrade. If you dont like the price, go buy a new account for $10.

@Targren: Stop playing the role of market research expert. They already hired someone to play that role. And depending on the research findings, which you have not done, it may very well support their case.

Aleta · Apr 14, 2009, 07:25 PM // 19:25

/notsigned for reasons listed above.

I'll probably buy them /shrug have to see when it's all implemented.
If I want it bad enough I'll get it.

Besides I just paid $20 from the ingame store to get a name change on one of my toons in EQ2.

It's all an option and business is business after all.

Fril Estelin · Apr 14, 2009, 07:32 PM // 19:32

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Originally Posted by Targren

Again with the stating-the-obvious thing. And I'll repeat, we're completely entitled to the opinion that they are MAKING THE WRONG ONE.

You may win an argument on a fansite discussion forum by stating this, but their job is directly on the line. They know the possible consequences of making the wrong decision, and they may well be doing it, but I don't think anyone here can infer that from their pricing and a poll that means very little.

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It's not a question of whether there are enough customers who don't mind paying. It's a question of whether there are more who would buy at a lower price point.

At a basic level it is. It's called "business", you look at who buys at the price you set, not a those that don't (until these people that boycott show you that they are indeed a lot of people, here we've got nothing compared to the mass of the GW community). Then maybe you add special offers or lower the price.

But here I'll agree with you: if the poll was about the tabs being at $5 and a massive "yes" would be heard, then I'd consider that a clear message to Anet. (everyone would like things to be cheaper! but some people are reasonable in this thread and explain in nuanced terms why $10 seem a bit too much).

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Look at the poll. The numbers are VERY close between "it's fair" and "the price needs to be lower." Consider that the Guru are generally the more hardcore/serious/obsessed players (discounting the trolls who seem to just post thrice daily for the sole purpose of telling us they don't play anymore, GW is dying, etc...). It would not be hard to imagine that the percentages would be even more skewed against the current price point among the normal player base.

Ok. I'm hardcore/serious/obsessed and actually quite obsessed on being right on this topic. I'm going to use my 10 other Guru accounts (from different IPs of course!) to boost my option, and ask my friend to do the same. And then there are the trolls. What do you end up with? Numbers that mean nothing.

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Who said anything about hate? You need to get your weltanschauung out of American politics. You can say someone is making a bad decision without hating them and hoping they die in a fire.

I believe that it's the impression some people make here, by their tone and choice of words. It's indeed subjective, yet I share this perception, for some.

Targren · Apr 14, 2009, 07:40 PM // 19:40

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Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

At a basic level it is. It's called "business", you look at who buys at the price you set, not a those that don't (until these people that boycott show you that they are indeed a lot of people, here we've got nothing compared to the mass of the GW community). Then maybe you add special offers or lower the price.

This is my fear. The vast majority of players I've asked never buy extra char slots. At $10 they're just not worth it. But Anet sees their target market for those slots as the hardcore, so they never did lower the price. I'm afraid the same will happen with this.

Fril Estelin · Apr 14, 2009, 07:44 PM // 19:44

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Originally Posted by Targren

This is my fear. The vast majority of players I've asked never buy extra char slots. At $10 they're just not worth it. But Anet sees their target market for those slots as the hardcore, so they never did lower the price. I'm afraid the same will happen with this.

Then there's nothing to fear. Anet will either change its offer, create a new offer or only make a return on investment on a longer period.

Over the 2 years I've been reading Guru, apparently a lot of people bought char slots (first because it was the only option, then because it was easier to manage their account, until accounts became cheap and XTH became fashionable), so I don't think our "understanding" is correct. Only Anet has the correct numbers.

It may be a missed opportunity, and if it is I hope Anet gets better marketing people (didn't see an ad for that on their website, or is it part of NCsoft?).

Jensy · Apr 14, 2009, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Wow, everyone is still crying like a little bitch over the optional storage?

Amazing.

Skyy High · Apr 14, 2009, 10:07 PM // 22:07

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Originally Posted by Targren

And that dichotomy is the problem. Either I pay too much and get ripped off, or I do without the upgrade that I would actually really like, and Anet doesn't get my money. That's lose/lose for both them and me.

Unless of course other people buy the tabs at $10 each. They really don't give a damn if they miss out on your money, if enough people buy them at $10 to make up for any extra sales they'd get by dropping the price. More than likely, they'll have the things up for $10 each for a while, and drop them after 6 months or so down to 2 for $10 to pick up everyone else who didn't want to pay that much. That is how they would maximize their profits here, which is the goal.

With all of knowledge of the true number of sales, ANet is far better at running their business than anyone here, period. You can hold the opinion that they're "doing it wrong" if you want, but that would mean you are of the superbly arrogant opinion that, without looking at any hard numbers whatsoever, you could run a business better than a group of people whose livelihoods depend upon it.

Fril Estelin · Apr 14, 2009, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Interestingly Regina actually posted on her wiki talkpage this:

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Originally Posted by Regina

In determining the price point for the storage panes, we discussed what people in various departments thought would be a balance between making enough to cover our costs, keeping the price low enough that it doesn't alienate a large number of players, and setting a price that was commensurate with the amount of work and resources we put into developing this feature. We have to charge a minimum of $5 USD in order to recoup the base costs of a transaction. We understand that not everyone will be happy with the $9.99 price tag, and we're aware that people are advocating for simply purchasing additional accounts to achieve similar results as an alternative to purchasing storage panes. There was a consensus on the $9.99 figure as balancing out all of the considerations I mentioned above, so this is why it was chosen. Again, I know that knowing why we chose the figure may not necessarily make anyone happier about it.

So much for $5 a pane!

NeHoMaR · Apr 14, 2009, 11:25 PM // 23:25

That's a good quote to close this thread!

Ctb · Apr 14, 2009, 11:27 PM // 23:27

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Wow, everyone is still crying like a little bitch over the optional storage?

Amazing.

No, everyone isn't. If you'd bothered to read the thread instead of rushing in here to overstress that giant melon on top of your neck you'd have seen that only a tiny handful of people are being vocally upset about this.

/ just doin' my part to get the thread locked